Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
duaaagiii
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:17 am

Taiwan M.O.E.: List of recommended characters, etc.

Post by duaaagiii » Tue May 29, 2007 10:33 pm

Here are a few documents recently published by the National Languages Committee of Taiwan's Ministry of Education:

臺灣閩南語推薦用字(第1批)
Recommended characters for use in Taiwanese Minnan (1st batch)
5/29/2007
link: http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MANDR ... 960523.pdf

columns:
1. entry number
2. recommended character
3. pronunciation
4. alternate pronunciation
5. Mandarin equivalent
6. usage example
7. alternate characters

臺灣閩南語漢字之選用原則
Rationale for character selection in Taiwanese Minnan
5/29/2007
link: (edited)
http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MANDR ... 960523.pdf

臺灣閩南語羅馬字拼音方案使用手冊
Guide to the Taiwanese Minnan Romanization Scheme (TL)
http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MANDR ... utsheh.pdf

(added)
臺灣閩南語羅馬字拼音輸入法1.1版
Taiwanese Minnan Romanization Scheme (TL) Input Method version 1.1
http://www.edu.tw/EDU_WEB/EDU_MGT/MANDR ... loo1-1.htm
(Windows, Mac, and Linux; has links to downloadable fonts)
Last edited by duaaagiii on Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jilang
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:28 am

Post by jilang » Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:43 am

Hi
Thanks for those links duaagiii. I had trouble with downloading second link but the first is very useful. It is quite informative and the only problem I have with it is that I can't read Hanzi very well (especially not traditional).
casey
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:27 am

Post by casey » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:04 pm

Yes, certainly the second link is not accessible. I thought I was the only one having trouble with it.
Tai Ke Lai O Ban Lam Oe
duaaagiii
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:17 am

Post by duaaagiii » Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:25 pm

Sorry about that--- I've fixed the link.
Gilpin
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Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:39 pm

Post by Gilpin » Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:42 am

A Dutch scholar, Henning Kloter, wrote a book in 2005 titled "Written Taiwanese" (ISBN: 3-447-05093-4) in which he examines the orthographic variations in Chinese characters and romanization styles for Minnan.

He traces the history of written Minnan both in Chinese characters and romanization back to Lijing Ji and Spanish missionaries to the its modern orthographies. Granted there are some errors and inconsistencies in his research, but the book does provide a good, comprehensive overview of the writing styles for the Min dialect.
casey
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 7:27 am

Post by casey » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:24 am

duaaagiii
Thanks for fixing the problem. It is OK now.

Gilpin
Thanks for the information.
Tai Ke Lai O Ban Lam Oe
SimL
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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Post by SimL » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:25 am

Gilpin wrote:A Dutch scholar, Henning Kloter, wrote a book in 2005 titled "Written Taiwanese" ...
Hi Gilpin,

Nice to see that someone else from the Forum has read it too. I've met Henning twice at conferences, and helped to proof-read the book originally. Henning is aware of our existence and has posted a number of times here.

For me, the book is a wonderful resource, because I unfortunately can't read any of the articles about Hokkien/Taiwanese written in Chinese. I also eagerly read the links which Ong posts which happen to be in English.

Best regards,
Sim.
Andrew

Post by Andrew » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:48 am

Have seen it online - €78 seems a lot for a book, but I guess it is an academic rather than popular book.
SimL
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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Post by SimL » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:13 am

Indeed (as you say) it's an academic publication, so the total number of copies is probably much less than "Stephen King"... Still, very worth it, in my opinion. There's a section on how Hokkien was written with (modified) kana during the Japanese Occupation/Administration, which I found particularly interesting - a solution was found for the Hokkien voiced stops, as the distinction voiced/unvoiced doesn't exist in Japanese.
jilang
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:28 am

Post by jilang » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:39 am

Thank you for fixing the link, duaaagiii.

What other books are there on Hokkien/Taiwanese? I'm just interested in knowing how much Hokkien material there is.
SimL
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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Amsterdam

Post by SimL » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:30 am

Hi Jilang,

For Hokkien -> English dictionaries, I *LOVE* my Douglas/Barclay.

It was published in 1873 (Douglas) and 1923 (Barclay), so it records a stage of the language which no longer exists, but that is for me also one of its attractive features: there are entries for "the gong that the underling strikes at 12 noon in front of the yamen every day", or "the sum of money paid to the matchmaker after the initial introduction is considered a success", or "the way a sedan chair carrier feels tired after he has had to carry the magistrate to an emergency trial in the next prefecture", etc. These all make browsing through the dictionary a real pleasure - they paint a very nice picture of the social conditions of the time.

Cheers,
Sim.

P.S. The examples I gave above can't actually be found in the dictionary - they are just things I (semi-humorously) made up to illustrate my point.
jilang
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:28 am

Post by jilang » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:48 am

Having an old book like that does sound useful and sounds like it would be interesting. When you say they have entries for those things, are they essays/written pieces done by the people that Douglas or Barcley met at that time or have I got it all wrong?

Are there any books actually written in Hokkien, romanized or in characters? I've read on these forums about dictionaries and bibles. Are there any normal dictionaries which are just for common use such as the everyday Chinese (Mandarin) Dictionaries?
SimL
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Location: Amsterdam

Post by SimL » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:22 pm

Hi Jilang,

>> are they essays/written pieces done by the people
>> that Douglas or Barcley met

No, there are no actual essays written in the dictionary. The "examples" I gave were just *definitions* of Hokkien words and phrases, so you kind of just stumble upon them.

I'll keep a lookout from now onwards and note where they occur when I see them, so in 3-6 months I'll post a list here of the "quaint" definitions I came across.

>> Are there any books actually written in Hokkien,
>> romanized or in characters

I'm afraid I can't give you any information on other materials. Once I start learning Hokkien serious (in a couple of years), I'll post what I have.

Aurelio posted a reply here, about 2 years ago, where he gave a list of all the materials he was using for learning Hokkien - including a Hokkien-English and an English-Hokkien dictionary from the Mary Knoll Center. I'll try and find his entry, and put a link to it here in the next few days.

Regards,
Sim.
ong
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Post by ong » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Aurelio didn't post anything about W.Campbell book,so it isn't helpful.
SimL
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Post by SimL » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:22 pm

Jilang,

I had a search on the Forum, but can't find anything. It turned out that my memory was faulty, and probably Aurelio told me these things only in a personal mail (the mail is quite old - May 2004).

I don't think he'd mind if I post some of that information here, so I've just extracted the relevant parts of his mail. I hope this information is helpful to you. The one time I rang them up, Reverend Flanigan was back in the U.S., and the guy I got on the phone didn't speak any English, and my Mandarin being what it is, the whole conversation was rather awkward!

I get the impression he tends to go back to the U.S. in the Summer, so if you want to ring to make inquiries, you might want to have someone in the background who can speak Mandarin, to help out, just in case.

Cheers,
Sim.

--------------

Extract from Aurelio's mail:

... I’ve come across a Hokkien-English and an English-Hokkien dictionary with characters. Thought you might be interested. The characters are mandarinized (see the example I posted on unilang), i.e. it writes Mandarin ni3 你 instead of Hokkien lu2 汝 etc. But it is still useful for a lot of words. Missionary Romanization and BoPoMoFo are used. The price is NT$ 1,000 for Taiwanese-English and NT$ 800 for English-Amoy (about US$ 60 in total). The contact information is:

Reverend Edward J Flanigan
Maryknoll Language Service Center, Taichung Taiwan

... They have some other interesting books, too, including dialogues (books and tapes), talks on Chinese Culture and Aesop’s fables (!) Tongbut e kosu (NT$ 50). Their telephone number is 04-2375-8433.
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