+ 復活節快樂 + Koh Oah Ciat Khoai Lok + Happy Easter +

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
Aurelio

Re: + 復活節快樂 + Koh Oah Ciat Khoai Lok

Post by Aurelio » Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:31 pm

Wait, there's more ;-)

S.L. had asked what a good etymology should look like and I have an example that's really close to his case. The Spanish pronoun for "you" (polite) "Usted" is said to be derived from "Vuestra merced" ("your grace") by contraction. Now, is that true? I'd do a two-step test:

(1) Is it plausible?
(2) Is there any historic evidence for this contraction?

(1) Other European languages have very similar terms of address like English "your highness" or German "Euer Gnaden". So it just seems right that Spanish should have some similar formation.

(2) We're in luck: If you only go back 400 years in time (Cervantes etc.) there are plenty of texts where you'll find 'vuestra merced' spelled out and even some in-between forms.

So this etymology is 100% proven. But, I'm afraid to say, the goa-oan hypothesis doesn't even seem to pass the plausibility test.

Poor etymologies based on some vague phonetic similarity and wild metaphorical speculation were so common in 18th century Europe that one writer remarked that the etymologists "disregarded the vowels while ignoring the consonants". We should have moved on from there.

Regards,
Aurelio
Aurelio

Re: + 復活節快樂 + Koh Oah Ciat Khoai Lok

Post by Aurelio » Wed Oct 01, 2003 2:26 pm

Ahem,

<(if I say manmande zou, why do I use a character for "de" that actually means virtuous?)>

-- well, I guess because I'm not going to win the All-Chinese Spelling Bee contest. Should have been the character 地, of course, not the "virtuous" de2 in Deguoren. Guess I got to engrossed with my national identity ;-)

BTW: Another good example for 地 not necessarily 'meaning' anything.

Regards,
Aurelio
Elaine Keown

Re: + 復活節快樂 + Koh Oah Ciat Khoai Lok

Post by Elaine Keown » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:42 pm

Elaine Keown
Seattle

Hi,

I found your site while surfing.

I'm trying to find out how many translations of the 'Old Testament' there are into various Chinese dialects.

It's very confusing! I'm sure there's Mandarin (directly from the Hebrew, 1874-1899.

But was there Shanghainese?

Elaine
niucls

Re: + 復活節快樂 + Koh Oah Ciat Khoai Lok

Post by niucls » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:41 am

Hi Elaine

There are a lot of translations of the Holy Bible (OT & NT) into Chinese languages. For Wu - Shanghainese: Bible 1908-1914, NT 1868-1908, Bible portions 1847-1908. Here is the links for more detail info:
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=China
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/ethno/Chin.html

Jesus film in Wu language:
http://www.jesusfilm.org/languages/23016/index.html
http://www.jesusfilm.org/languages/ (including Chinese languages)


Niuc

[%sig%]
SL De

Re: + 復活節快樂 + Koh Oah Ciat Khoai Lok

Post by SL De » Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:38 am

Aurelio

Thanks for your comment! It help me to learn more.
Your point of the "Chinese writing system is essentially Phonetic 中文 書寫
系統 本質頂 是 音標 (tiong-bun chu-sia he-thong bun-chit-ting si im-piau)", is a good idea. I try to talk some views.

This point of the "Chinese writing system is essentially Phonetic " probably influenced by the recognition of the "chinese simplified character, 簡體 中 文字 (kan-the tiong-bun-li)" and the "Mandarin speaking". You may be to learn
the "chinese simplified character" and the "Baijing Mandarin" at the first, or may be influenced from other materials which related to the "chinese simplified character" and the Mandarin speaking?

However, if this point of the "Chinese writing system is essentially phonetic", which pointing to the Beijing Mandarin speaking is more suitable.
And it may be called the "Beijing Mandarin (chinese simplified character) writing system", this term is more accurate than that term of the "Chinese writing system, 中文 書寫 系統 (tiong-bun chu-sia he-thong)", because there are several "Chinese writing system" in the world, some are "Phonetic 音標 (im-piau)" and some are "Non Phonetic 非 音標 (hui im-piau)".

As the same time, there is also a "Lan-ching (藍青)" style of Mandarin in Taiwan which is the "Lan-ching Mandarine (or Taipai-Mandarine)" and use the "chinese traditional character, 繁體 中 文字 (huan-the tiong bun-li)".Hence it can be called the term of the "Lan-ching Mandarin
(chinese traditional character) writing system".

In the Hongkong and Macau, there are teached a cantonese style of Mandarin in the "educational system", such include the Kindergarden, primary school, secondary school, college and university. The teachers and students use the "pronouncition of canton" to speak, to listen, to read, and to write, the works and literatures of the "native Mandarin speaking authers", in their classes of school. Which can be called the
"Canton-pronounciation Mandarin (chinese traditional character) writing system".


The point of the "Chinese writing system is essentially Phonetic"
may be divided into two parts:

1.the "Character 文字 (bun-ji)"
2.the "Writing System 書寫 系統 (chu-sia he-thong)"

When the "character" applied in the "writing system" which can be represents in some different forms, such as;

(1) "pictogram 圖畫符 (too-ue-hu)"
such as; the "Original totem character 原始 圖騰 文字
(goan-su too-thing bun-li)".

(2). "logogram 詞符 (su-hu)"

-----(2a). ideogram 表意符 (piau-i-hu)
such as; the "Siong nation Oracle and bone characters 商族 甲骨 文字
(siong-chok kah-kut bun-li)".

-----(2b). "logo-phonogram 形聲符 (hing-siaN-hu)"
such as; the "chinese traditional characters 繁體 中 文字
(huan-the tiong bun-li)" and the "Sumerian archaic characters 曙尾 古樸 文字
(su-be koo-phok bun-li)".

-----(2c). "phonetogram 音標符 (im-piau-hu)",

-----(2c1). characters had radical with "vowels" and "consolants".
such as the "Sumerian cuneiform character 曙尾 楔形 文字
(su-be sueh-hing bun-li)".

-----(2c2). characters had radical with only "consolants" and without "vowels".
such as; the "Egyptian Hieroglyphic Character 衣集 聖書體 文字
(i-chip sing-chu-the bun-li)".

-----(2c3). character had radical and phonogram
such as the "chinese simplified characters 簡體 中 文字 (kan-the tiong-bun-li)" and may be the "Mayan glyph character 瑪野 雕刻 文字
(ma-ia tiau-khik bun-li)" ?


(3). "syllabogram 音節符 (im-jiet-hu)"
such as the "syllabary of Chaldean cuneiform character 迦鎮 楔形 文字 音節表 (ka-tin sueh-hing bun-li im-chiet-pio)".

(4). "letter 字母 (li-bu)"

(a). the alphabet with "vowels" and "consolants"
such as the "alphabet of Ugarit cuneiform character 於家利 楔形 文字 字母表
(u-ka-li sueh-hing bun-li li-bu-pio)", the alphabet of Latin, etc.

(b). the alphabet without "vowels" and "only consolants"
such as the "alphabet" of the Phoenician 腓尼信 (hui-ni-sin), the Hebrew 伊富 (i-pu), etc.


The "chinese traditional character" use the form of "logo-phonogram 形聲符
(hing-snia-hu)", but the "chinese simplified character" trends to use the form of "phonetic sign 音標符 (im-biau-hu)".

80% of "chinese traditional characters 繁體 中 文字 (huan-the tiong bun-li)" are the "logo-phonogram 形聲字 (hing-snia-li)", they are not the "phonetogram 音標字 (im-piau-li)" or "phonetic 音標
(im-piau)".

But you could say that, 80% of "chinese simplified characters 簡體 中 文字
(kan-the tiong-bun-li)" are the "phonetic 音標 (im-piau)" or the "phonetogram 音標字 (im-piau-li)".

The aim of the "chinese simplified characters", which hopes to change the
"chinese traditional character" into the form of "Latin letter", in the
"Beijing Mandarin writing system" or the "Latinization of Beijing Mandarin
writing system". At the first, this policy design a plan of three stages to change the character.

(I). "logo-phonogram changes to phonetic sign". Promotes the
"chinese simplified characters" to instead of "chinese traditional character".
Such as the characters of Akkadian, Amorites, Assirian.

(II). "phonetic sign changes to homonym sign". Each syllabic of the
"Beijing Mandarin language", choses one "chinese simplified characters" to represent its pronunciation and destroy its other homonyms.
Such as the "syllabary of only one homonym sign" of the Chaldean.

(III). "homonym sign changes to syllabic sign". Promotes the
"syllabary of Beijing Mandarin language in the form of latin letters", to instead of the "homonyms sign" of the "chinese simplified character" in the Beijing Mandarin pronunciation.
Such as the "syllabary of Peh-oe-ji 白謂 字 (Oral-language writing system
with the form of latin letters) of the Hokkien".

The "Lan-ching Mandarin (chinese traditional character) writing system" and
the "Canton-pronounciation Mandarin (chinese traditional character) writing
system" are the "Logo-phonetic writing system 形聲 書寫 系統
(hing-siaN chu-sia he-thong)" because it applied the "logo-phonogram 形聲符 (hing-siaN-hu)". But the "Beijing Mandarin (chinese simplified character)
writing system" is a "Phonetic writing system 音標 書寫 系統
(im-piau chu-sia he-thong)" because it applied the "phonetogram 音標符
(im-piau-hu)".

Some westerners learnt "chinese simplified character" and the
Beijing-Mandarin, and the other westerners learnt the "chinese traditional character" and the Lan-ching Mandarine,"藍青 Lam-chhing"
(or Taipai-Mandarine). They may have the different experience in their recognition of the "Chinese character 中 文字 (tiong bun-li)" and the "Writing system 書寫 系統 (chu-sia he-thong)".

Best regards,
SL
Guest

Re: + 復活節快樂 + Koh Oah Ciat Khoai Lok

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:11 pm

Dylan Sung wrote:The origins of such pseudo etymologies can be found in the 1979 book by C.H. Kang and E.R. Nelson, "The Discovery of Genisis". The following link has a paper folks on this thread may be interested in.


http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... _v13n1.asp

called

The Lamb of God hidden in Chinese characters (PDF)
by Voo Kui Shin & Larry Hovee

I do not believe in such explanations however.

Dyl.
Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:30 am

Ain't it kind of late to celebrate Easter in Sept or out of season to be posting about Easter?
qrasy

Post by qrasy » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:56 am

Is "koh oah ciat" = 復活節? 復=koh?
hong

Post by hong » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:37 pm

復 is just hok/hiu.From benzi point of view it should be 故。
Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:25 am

Elaine Keown: But was there Shanghainese?

Here are Shanghainese Version
http://www.chinalanguage.com/forums/vie ... 5c73f6b504
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