Malaysian Hokkien

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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AlexNg

Malaysian Hokkien

Post by AlexNg » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:40 pm

Can somebody tell me whether "Diam" is a hokkien word borrowed from malay or originally exist in hokkien.

I always thought it is malay word, but then one day, i saw a taiwanese movie and they spoke "diam"

Diam meaning silent
Eng Wai

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by Eng Wai » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:56 pm

And could someone please tell the origin of lui (money)? Is it a modified loan word from duit (malay) or originally a chinese word with chinese character (gold radical + lei (thunder))

Eng Wai
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:09 am

diam is from minnan.hanzi are 澹,扂,恬.the last hanzi I have given the link by Pro.Mazhongqi for theory in guangyun dict.As for diam meaning staying, malay also borrowed it from minnan .The hanzi is 踮.
Engwai,I have given the book by Prof.Lim from China who said lui is from malay.In Chinagchiu,china there are people saying lui which could be someone from South east asia brought this word back..I have another theory that this word is from portugese because Cambodia also using this word 500 years ago.They have contact with Portugal started 500 years ago.
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:49 am

good words for tiam as staying.tiam-kha,tiam-khang.tiam-le
tiam-chui-chun -submarine(very unusual compare to putonghua)
tiam-khang-ku =井底之蛙(one who don't know much)find english tran for this word if someone has good chinese idiom dict just for Sim to understand this useful word.
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:57 am

above I should type one who doesn't.
a few good words bo-si-tiam,kek-tiam-tiam ,te-tiam-tiam,tiam-chai,tiam-chih-chih,tiam-chiuh-chiuh,tiam-chut-chut,
tiam-cheng,tiam-chai,tiam-tiam-siu,tong-tiam,tiam-tiok.All these words are unknown to most malaysians because dicts have never been studied .Older people have no idea about these.
AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by AlexNg » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:59 am

1. Lui is from the malay word "Duit" meaning money. In Minnan, the proper word is "Ji", I have never heard "Lui" spoken in any taiwanese minnan show.

Because there are many malaysian chinese with relatives in china, they must have brought back the word to china without realizing it. My china-born parents use "lui" without realizing it is a malay word.

It could be true that the malay word "Duit" is borrowed from other languages. But not sure about this.

2. Thanks, hong for the explanation that diam is a minnan word as in "diam-diam" meaning "keep your mouth shut".

So the malay borrowed diam from hokkien, the same goes for the word "teh" meaning "tea".
AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by AlexNg » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:14 am

Can someone also tell me whether "mata" is a malay word or hokkien word originally ?

Mata means eyes, so "two eyes" mata-mata means police in malay.

In hokkien, eyes would be "bak chiu" (minnan) or "mak chiu" (minbei)
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:41 am

mata is from sanskrit but I am not sure about mata-mata.Maybe they change it to mean watch for police because this is their job.
Niuc

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by Niuc » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:33 pm

Hi Alex & Hong

According to Merriam-Webster, "duit" means small coin in Dutch http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book= ... ry&va=doit.

Hong, are you sure that "mata" is from Sanskrit? Eye in Sanskrit is "netra". "Mata" means eye in a lot of Austronesian languages, including in languages from Madagaskar (West) to Easter Island (East), Aborigin Taiwan (North) to Maori in New Zealand (South). Btw, "mata-mata" means spy in Indonesian.

As all human are related, I think to some degree languages do share similarities, not necessarily through borrowing from each other. I think eye "mata" in Malay (mat-) is related to Chinese "mak", "bak", "mu" etc. Also mother "ibu" to "bu"/"bo"/"mu".

[%sig%]
AlexNg

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by AlexNg » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:34 pm

Niuc,

There must be an origin from all words.

Judging from the response here, mata doesn't seem to be hokkien.

Bak is different from mata, so mata cannot be derived from hokkien bak chiu.

When malay borrow from chinese, they borrow the original word, for example "teh" without adding anything behind.

If there is something behing like "tang lung" which malay borrowed from chinese, they will add the ending. All else, mata would become "bakchiu" in malay.

Mata-mata means police in both malaysian and indonesian malay (after all they are the same language, one influenced by english, the other by dutch)
in old malay. Nowadays, they call them "polis" instead of mata-mata.
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:45 am

Dear Niu,
Thanks a lot for confirming that duit is from Dutch. mata is from a buddhist language called pali( also the same in sanskrit) -meaning -a view ,so I think malay just changed it to mean eye .we use eye to see things besides brain to think.Most Malay/indonesia have the same religion with thai ,burmese until they changed it to Islam.I don't think mata has anything to do with minnan.
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:50 am

If Indonesian fixed Jawa language as official language,then we will have big trouble talking to indonesian workers in malaysia.
Niu,I think this is the benzi for kai
http://www.muh123.idv.tw/taigi/14.bmp
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:33 am

one a free article on min by Ting Pang hsin
http://sunzi1.lib.hku.hk/hkjo/article.j ... sue=350011
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:44 pm

above article is interesting because he suggested there are two wu languages.
hong

Re: Malaysian Hokkien

Post by hong » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:03 pm

I just found an article about malay language in above web site
http://sunzi1.lib.hku.hk/hkjo click accept then type malay language to search an article by lin lien-hsien.She also wrote about teochew language in here .Kahwin is persian ,she said.
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