Questions about Penang Hokkien

[SimL]

Oops, sorry, I don't think I explained that bit about "frightening" very well...

To say "X is frightening", they would say "X hO wa kiaN ka puaN si" (literally: "he give me frightened until half dead"). I suppose (just thinking off the top of my head now) "X is not particularly frightening" would be "X bo kong hO wa kiaN ka an-cuaN".

Hope that helps.

SimL

[SimL]

Is it then possible to say:
Wá chē-chhia chin kú pún ē bô-sóng.

For "I feel uncomfortable whenever I go in a car for a long time"

Yes, I think so. I think it's the same pattern as the one I gave, but it would be great if Mark or Andrew could confirm.

The only thing I'd correct is not grammatical, and that is the "chin ku". It sounds awfully Amoy to me . For PgHk, I'd recommend "cin-nia ku", or "ciaN ku", as discussed somewhere else...

SimL

[Ah-bin]

How to "start" in Penang Hokkien

It's easy to say "I'm learning Hokkien" - Wá (toā-tī) óh Hók-kiàn-uā, but how about "I start to learn Hokkien"?

Wá chai Tâi-oân, Ē-mûiⁿ ê lâng sī kóng “khai-sí” tapi Penang Hokkien Podcast ê ták-ták lâng sī iōng âng-mô•-uā ê “start”. There is another way i have noticed that they sometimes use, and that is with the particle khí 起.

Example: "Lú sī kí-sî thiaⁿ khí ê?" - When did you start listening?

Can this construction replace "start" altogether? It certainly seems more "native" Hokkien than "khai-sí" which is probably a recent introduction from the written language.

...and while I'm at it I've thought of another interesting particle "ê-sū" which seems to be used for giving reasons

Example:
I sī-m-sī bô suka lú sī Tng-lâng ê-sū? "Did he not like it that you were Chinese?"

This made me notice that "tāi-chì" for "affair" or "thing" is less commonly used in Penang, I have heard it once so far in "ū tāi-chì" but it sounded more like they were using it for "then there'll be trouble"

regards,

Ah-bin

[niuc]

Hi Sim

Indeed 'ka3' is another form for 'kau3' (到 arrive, until). Your sample 'kiaN ka puaN si' also exists in my variant, and in this context it sounds strange to use 'kau', better to use 'ka' here. Another 'kau3' is 教 (religion/education), as a verb it is pronounced as 'ka3' (to teach). So the pattern 'kau <-> ka' is regular.

[SimL]

Indeed 'ka3' is another form for 'kau3' (到 arrive, until). Your sample 'kiaN ka puaN si' also exists in my variant, and in this context it sounds strange to use 'kau', better to use 'ka' here.

Agreed. In my variant, it would be impossible to say "kiaN kau puaN si", it has to be "ka".

But IF that "ka" is short for "kau", how does one explain: "i cau kau ka cit-peng" (= "he ran up to here"), with even a "kau" in front of it?

Another 'kau3' is 教 (religion/education), as a verb it is pronounced as 'ka3' (to teach). So the pattern 'kau <-> ka' is regular.

Yes, I think I noticed that "ka3" in Douglas the other day. However, I say "kah4" for "to teach" (with the -h dropped in compounds, like "ka8-chEh" (literally "to teach books", which is the normal way to say "teach" (in a school))).

I clearly remember my parents once explaining to me when I was very young that there was a distinction between "ka3" (= "to instruct, order, command (someone to do something)" and "kah4" (= "to teach") [or vice versa], but my parents now totally deny that this is the case, and can't imagine that they ever told me that.

SimL

[duaaagiii]

In Taiwan, other than "being scared to death", we also say 恐怖 (khiong2-poo3) for "frightening".

[SimL]

Hi duaaagiii,

Nice to see you again. Another very colloquial way of saying this might be: "kiaN si lang" (literally "scared dead person"). Personally, I think this is used more for "horrible" than for "frightening" (extended usage).

SimL

[niuc]

But IF that "ka" is short for "kau", how does one explain: "i cau kau ka cit-peng" (= "he ran up to here"), with even a "kau" in front of it?

In my variant we don't have 'ka' in that sentence, so it is 'i cau kau cit-pin(g)'. One sample of both 'kau' & 'ka' in Bagan Hokkien is 'i ua* kau ka tak-e tan a khun khy a' 伊晚到到逐個等到睏去了 ("he arrived so late until everyone had fallen asleep while waiting"). Although I am not 100% sure that 'kau' & 'ka' both are 到, yet at least usage of 到 still makes sense here. Notice the first 'a' is elided form of 'ka', second 'a' is elided form of 'la/liau'.

Yes, I think I noticed that "ka3" in Douglas the other day. However, I say "kah4" for "to teach" (with the -h dropped in compounds, like "ka8-chEh" (literally "to teach books", which is the normal way to say "teach" (in a school))).

I clearly remember my parents once explaining to me when I was very young that there was a distinction between "ka3" (= "to instruct, order, command (someone to do something)" and "kah4" (= "to teach") [or vice versa], but my parents now totally deny that this is the case, and can't imagine that they ever told me that.

In my variant, it's the reverse: "to teach" is 'ka3', 'ka4' ('kah4') is "to order someone to do something", as in 'che1-ka4'. I suspect 'ka4' is another reading of 叫 (kio3) or may be it is 遣, so 'che1-ka4' may be 差叫 or 差遣 .

There is a saying in Hokkien:
差豬遣狗, 不值自己走
'che1-ty1 ka4-kau2, m7-tat8-kai7-ki7-cau2'
"rather than dispatching a pig or a dog (to do something), better (go to) do it by (our/your) own"

[Andrew]

In my variant we don't have 'ka' in that sentence, so it is 'i cau kau cit-pin(g)'. One sample of both 'kau' & 'ka' in Bagan Hokkien is 'i ua* kau ka tak-e tan a khun khy a' 伊晚到到逐個等到睏去了 ("he arrived so late until everyone had fallen asleep while waiting"). Although I am not 100% sure that 'kau' & 'ka' both are 到, yet at least usage of 到 still makes sense here. Notice the first 'a' is elided form of 'ka', second 'a' is elided form of 'la/liau'.

The use of "kau ka" is quite common with us to mean "until" or "up to", e.g. kau ka am-mE, kau ka toa-lO-au.