Is Hokkien A Living Language?

[PPK]

dun worry, they still have the 'official coxford dictionary of singlish' for reference...

[Mark]

yes PPK

I was going to buy the print version of that, but wepsite version valley useful lah!

However somehow I doubt they care about Singlish at all, they seem over-ambitious here. If Thailand's GM suddenly says "ok people, Thai isn't a very good way of speaking English, we have to speak English correctly so that it is no longer Thai" is strange, Thailand has a national language unique to its own country, but they have no problem with international business.

And while I can sort of understand why they may want to promote "proper English" (vs proper Singlish), there's no need to make the language die. Many other campaigns have hurt languages in similar ways: The old Spanish dictator tried to promote Spanish at the expense of Galician, Catalan, Asturian, Valencian, &c (but if I recall correctly he did promote Basque for Basques) so far that he even tried to ban speech of these languages! Surely if you are killing a language and realise what you are doing you must be evil? But then I don't believe in absolute morals... hm...

[Mark]

James, you're wrong here. The politically correct usage of Taiwanese means Hakka, Hokkien, and aboriginal languages, I've heard Taiwanese people say it themselves and I've seen it written all over. It does make sense, doesn't it? When we say "Chinese", we don't refer just to Mandarin but to all the dialects? But we don't refer to Zhuang, Tibetan, etc. because we like to consider these their own nationalities even though PRC has tried to integrate them.

[Ken]

Hi all,

The term 'Taiwanese' naturally refers to Minnan language. But if the question is 'what are the Taiwanese languages?', then they include Minnan, Hakka & Aboriginal languages.

The frequent reference to Minnan language as 'Taiwanese' is a phenomenon that has become more popular in the last 12 years or so.
When I was in Taiwan in 1990, the use of term 'Minnan' was still common.
This could be due to the growing influence of the pro-Independance forces.

[James Campbell]

Mark,

Li mai ka goa cha-boo-kiaN ka lao-bu tng-chai anne la!!

Li chitma teh to-chit kokka? Li kui kang, tak kang long ka tai-oan lang cho-hoe bo? Goa m siong-sim.

Goa kui-kang long teh kong-si ka cho seng-li e tai-oan lang cho-hoe. Li sui-si mng sia tai-oan oe si simmih, chhiaN in ka li kong tai-oan oe, in bo kho-leng beh ka li o-beh kong simmih khekka-oe, simmih hoanna-oe, long m-si. In chiah e ka li kong tai-oan oe chiah tioh a. Ni-chhia, chit-e tai-oan oe chiu si li so-kong e banlam-oe. Hoan-tsai, chit-e msi hiahni phaiN liau-kai e taichi, a-m?

Kok-ji u kho-leng khah chheng-chho. Ka-su li kong 臺灣話, tong-jian chit-e si ka 閩南話 kang chit-e boo iuN. Na-bo, kasu li kong 臺灣的語言, chit-kiaN taichi long si bo kang-khoaN e. Bun-te si anne-hoh: li so-iong Taiwanese chit-e eng-bun-ji bo chheng-chho. Li eng-khai iong tai-gi lai kai-sek la!!

Li kam-u liao-kai?

Goa chhiaN tai-ka lai to-to chi-kao!

James

[James Campbell]

Mark? u ti le bo?

[Mark]

uhh... right...

Didn't I say somewhere else, 我袂曉講台文。 = ( 'wà vwěi hiào gòng dȁi vún.)

[James Campbell]

Mark what you wrote in characters is contradicting what you wrote in romanization.

The characters say you want to be able to speak it, but your romanization (though scrambled) I make it out as saying you can't speak it. By the way, people don't say 台文.

James, you're wrong here. The politically correct usage of Taiwanese means Hakka, Hokkien, and aboriginal languages, I've heard Taiwanese people say it themselves and I've seen it written all over.

So, since you not only do not know Taiwanese, you don't even really have a basis to make the claim above and tell me I'm wrong. The fact that you can't even answer my questions in the Taiwanese post above goes to show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Na Ren]

A language is only living if there is a sizable population that speaks it and can transmit it to their children who continue to speaking. As far as I gather, even though Singaporeans are being forced to learn Mandarin, Hokkien is still used even if unofficially. It is no different than Mainland China or Taiwan where the populace must learn Mandarin; the speakers of dialects are still around and continue to survive. Government policy might be harsh, but I think it was brought to unite the different Chinese populations--whether they be Teochew, Hokkien, Hainanese, Mandarin, Cantonese or even Shanghaiese--and promote greater unity with the other Chinese countries. Most African nations speak several if not hundreds of languages, but use an official language for commerce and government. To keep Hokkien alive, it must be done at home just like in Africa and other countries. I do not speak Teochew because my ancestors did not want me to, but I feel at loss. In America, mostly Cantonese, learn Mandarin at "Chinese School" but still retain their Cantonese. If other Chinese people outside of Singapore can hold on to their native dialects, then I have faith that Hokkien will still be a viable resource for future generations even under the "Speak Mandarin" campaign.

[panoo]

I recognise that speaking Mandarin gives Chinese Singaporeans access to a wider world, and gives the Mandarin speaking world access to Singaporeans, which is a good thing, but I still lament the loss of Hokkien in Singapore.